Let’s start from the main announcement and reason for this post: I am not collaborating with Drop anymore. You’ll still see some of my products on their website, that’s because they are already produced, but they will slowly fade over time. That means that there won’t be any new product designed by me for Drop. So no Dark Speech Tolkien keycaps, no Elven dices, no full brown Retro, no MT2 set designed by me (in contrast to what I announced few hours ago).
Of course it’s hard to stay objective but I’ll try to stick to facts, things that I can prove and have documentation for (emails/chats/whatever).
So what changed since the very “diplomatic” post I wrote 24 hours ago? Everything seemed fine, right?
Few days ago Drop announced the MT2 profile. They never talked about it to me and I am not involved in the process in any way. They have all the rights to do that, but considering the very long relationship we had I would have appreciated a heads up.
After all people know that MT3 = Matt3o and rightfully thought MT2 was my doing. I received dozens of messages from the community asking for details about “my” (not mine!) new creature.
So with one quick swipe Drop used the MT3 success to create a completely unrelated product and by calling it MT2 they are also claiming that the MT moniker is not related to me, it was all part of their business plan.
I contacted them to ask what happened. We talked and Yanbo (my contact at Drop) personally apologized. Great, everything’s fine. The heat of the moment passed and at the end they have their corporate dynamics.
In the same chat they asked me NOT to post about my malcontent about the MT2 naming. At that point there was no ill feeling and I told them that all I wanted was for people to know that I’m not involved in the making of a cherry clone. I wouldn’t have done it even if they asked.
Then we moved on discussing a set I could have done in MT2, it might have been Skull Squadron.
A day passed and they got some heat out of the MT2 announcement on their website and in one of their comments they say:
No mention to me and now they are attributing the name to MiTo.
Now the feeling is that they just wanted to take distance from me and take back control over the naming. They are willingly cancelling my existence.
I asked to stop creating confusion at the very least. I complied with their request of not fomenting drama, but they are free to do what they want.
After talking to them again it was clear that: 1) they have no respect for my person, they are loyal only to themselves; 2) they do not intend to rectify what they said. They went as far as saying (paraphrasing but remember everything is documented):
“why can’t he [Matteo] not post about it or just post he is fine with it and to calm down“
At this point I’m disappointed, but there’s no drama. Since they prove to have no respect of me, I can’t in good conscience keep working with them. I would do it just for the money, there would be no soul in my products and I can’t give you that.
Let me reiterate that it’s not a “bad break up”, our lives and goals changed and we are just doing different things. And you’ll know more about those things soon enough. There are more keycaps coming from another company, spherical top with a great font and a new keyboard with hot-swaps, backlight and all that jazz. So stay tuned!
UPDATE: if you are interested I posted a brief history of the MT3 profile.
What a bungled opportunity to continue working with an absolute unit of a creator! Their loss.
Was an active member of their community since its beginning, but the stench of their corporate culture just continues to ooze out after every business decision. No passion for enthusiasts as before. Just the bottom line.
And nothing against MiTo, but what a horrible deflection. Did they really expect people to believe that? Or just a public slap to your face? Bunch of n00bs…
Nothing against MiTo?… Think again: https://drop.com/talk/106596/talk/2882727?utm_source=linkshare&referer=LSEQBK
From MiTo: Yes I am aware since my nickname is MiTo and contributed to the mid height (2 < 3) doubleshot line made by Drop. MT3’s acronym is a nod to Matt3o’s name and participation. MT2 is a nod to my name, my participation and MT3 itself. As an enthusiast my focus is on quality of the keys for people to enjoy and design their art on, it is cool that the names are matching like MT3, MT2 and hopefully eventually MT1 or xx1 like they said but these acronyms are irrelevant to me. I invite Matt3o and anyone else to give it a chance and take a crack on design, as this is a work of love for the community to build on.
I would really like to see a profile that looks like mt3 but with a shorter height. That would be something really different. Then I t would be worth calling it MT2. lol. Good luck on all your future endeavors.
that’s what you’ll get :)
This is great to hear! I hope you have the chance to consider different licensing deals of the new profiles than for MT3. Drop getting to sit on the exclusive rights to use the design in my opinion only hurt the consumers and the industry as a whole, and definitely did not give your work the justice it deserved. Ironically, I would argue it even hurt Drop’s bottom line, since people weren’t able to make compatible keycaps (e.g. for international sets!), making would-be buyers think twice about buying an MT3 set.
If possible, keep the rights to lease your design to manufacturers and allow multiple factories to create molds for them.
Of course, I realize things may not be that simple in practice, and there is a lot of money involved in setting up manufacturing lines. A boy can dream, though.
im mainly into keyboards because of MT3, HHKB’s and that’s about it. i don’t understand why Drop would treat you badly when MT3 has been very good for the business/brand. i’m only into drop because of MT3, i will have to rethink that because of your departure
i hope that keycaps are tall mt3 and the tops are similarly scooped (or is that what you my spherical tops)
they haven’t treated me “badly”. They just don’t care about me at all and they need to impose their narrative.
The new set is spherical top (yes, scooped), the shape is not designed by me, I only worked on the legends (doubleshot) and kitting. Maybe I’ll also do a colorway. But they are really sweet, very round shaped and retro-feeling. I love the font that we used!
Please be PBT, and I hope it’s as deep as MT3!
Chiming in here to specifically +1 this. One of my favorite sets for its feel (and looks) — a set I type on daily — is 2048 Extended, which is PBT dye sub MT3. Soon to be joined by dev/tty Triumph, from the recent sale.
Either way, excited for what’s in store for you matt3o!
What’s the best way to keep informed with what you’re working on? This blog?
yeah, the mailing list if you want. I’m thinking about a discord or a forum or maybe twitter.
Discord would be great! That would have my vote! (and you have my vote as well. I’m deleting my Drop account today)
Please don’t do a Discord, at least not exclusively. Keeping announcements up on a blog or a forum makes it so that announcements aren’t obscured from public view and difficult to search for. I’m all for a Discord for basic community interaction and feedback, but for announcements those need to be out and visible to the search engines and easily navigated to.
the blog is here to stay :) discord is just a chat. it serves different purposes. I hate it when discord is used as a “website”
I’ve been searching for words to describe their approach here and I don’t think “Tone Deaf” sufficiently captures what has transpired; maybe “offensively dismissive” is better?
I believe there’s some real arrogance and toxic group think going on over there at Drop corporate and that has existed for some time. I’m aware this isn’t even the first controversy they’ve created by their hamfisted approach, but it’s maybe the first where I sense actual maliciousness on their part.
I doubt very much they will miss me but the bad taste this event has left means I cannot, in good conscious, continue to do business with them.
“offensively dismissive” is a good one, but truth to be told I believe they never really liked me because I rarely played ball with their corporate agenda. It feels like they wanted an excuse to get rid of me. They’ve been very effective in that regard.
It’s not okay for them to do that. I look forward to seeing what’s next!
On a selfish note: What does this mean for the 3277 ergo and blank kits?
everything that has been done/sold/organized/produced before today will be regularly fulfilled (so including 3277 blanks).
This situation is really sad, what a terrible job done by Drop. Hope the best for you Matt3o! On to bigger and better things!
I got into mechanical keyboards a few years ago, when I was looking for Commodore-esque retro keycaps, and came across Susuwatari just as it finally shipped. I’ve been a fan of your designs since, and cringed at Drop’s behavior all along the way. I won’t be doing business with them again; I just can’t. But I’m excited to see what you come up with in the future without them!
No matter where you go, I will still love you! Can’t wait for your new creations and I am sure the kitting will be great as usual.
DSA Nerd, DSA Granite, /dev/tty are still one of my favourite caps :)
aaaww thanks :)
As an avid user of multiple MT3 sets (two /dev/tty sets, an Extended 2048 set, and a Susuwatari set) watching this unfold was painful. Drop could have handled this so much better, but given how many communication and shipping issues I’ve had with them as a consumer I can’t say I’m surprised that they’re also apathetic toward their creators as well.
Regardless, I’m glad there’s a path forward for you. I’m looking forward to seeing what you come up with next. :)
The situation is pretty clear to me and I support your stance. By the way, what do you think about a shorter profile not as boring as cherry (which is my favorite, but I love the top on mt3)… Have you ever thought about it?
yes it’s something that I’m exploring
Drop has shown how they really act in multiple occasions, this is the last straw, never shopping from drop ever again. When will they learn they’re alienating a ton of people by continually using paragons of OUR COMMUNITY (not theirs) to profit. I fully support your decision matt3o, even though I’ve never been a fan of tall caps, I’m excited to see where you go and how much more you innovate and improve in the future! matt3o FOREVER!
wherever scummy behavior is, drop is there and mito is lurking nearby.
dude deadass blocked gmk retrowave’s novelties for like 6 months, demanding IP on the freely available setting sun logo LMAO.
legit villains of this hobby.
1. Went to Drop and added some keycaps to my cart
2. Saw the MT2 announcement and got excited that matt3o was releasing a new profile
3. Came here to read more about matt3o’s new design
4. Discovered that not only was it not designed by matt3o, but that Drop was downright disrespectful (the line about how MT stood “for MiTo” particularly frustrated me)
5. Went back to my cart on Drop and removed the keycaps
6. Decided not to order anything from Drop again
I have spent over $500 on Drop and would have continued to spend more. Their loss…
I really appreciate the sentiment but please don’t boycott Drop just because of what happened today.
I can’t say this is the straw that breaks the camel’s back, the camel has long been flattened from their rapid shift in community focused mentalities to pure corporate unfeeling distant profit seeking. I hope you succeed in whatever future endeavors you seek out to accomplish and maybe this time around it’ll be stocked beyond just a USA warehouse so the community all over can enjoy.
So if we were to purchase any existing MT3 set designed by you would you still get some money? I’m assuming you’ve been getting some sort of commission so far (otherwise you’ve been getting a pretty bad deal). And will the existing sets continue to be produced? For example TLoTR collab is an officially licensed set. Does Drop own the rights to that set and will they be able to continue to make and sell more? And if they do will you get a dividend?
yes anything that has been done so far will be still sold on Drop and I still get a royalty. They told me that a second run of Tolkien is already produced (or in production) so that will be sold soon. But there won’t be reruns.
Does that mean Susuwatari and /dev/tty will no longer be available, once whatever’s in stock and in production runs out?
I don’t think they will be restockd.
Since the person/people who’d asked for permission to run GMK Skull Squadron never did it, and it won’t go to MT2…will you run it elsewhere w another profile? I’d buy Dasher/Dancer there too.
it’s a very niche set… the reach that Drop has would have guaranteed some kind of success. But anyway I’m open to it.
matt3o i dont see you mentioning anything about engicoder in any of your blogs? weird how that happens, why dont you tell the whole truth about how mt3 was made and designed
The other person involved in the creative process was Photekq, who I always credited (a bit of history: https://matt3o.com/about-mt3-profile-and-devtty-set/). There are other people (including Yanbo) who worked on it on the production side of things but I’m not involved on that side. The creative part started in 2015 and it was a community effort lead by me on deskthority. I honestly don’t know what engicoder did for MT3 and I don’t think I ever talked to them unless they go with another alias (I even checked my chat logs with Drop and emails but can’t find the name). Please note that Drop often makes changes to projects without telling the original designer (because they don’t really care about the product), so it’s also possible that they hired someone else to make some changes without telling me (which is classic Drop move).
Anyway, MT3 is definitely a team effort (I started the fire, designed the original layout), but still that doesn’t change what Drop did. Which is mostly disrespecting me and my work without any remorse and the original post I did about MT2 (https://matt3o.com/what-the-hell-is-mt2/) proves that I was in complete good faith and ready to move on.
i remember back in the days when mt3 was being developed and swore that engicoder designed the actual keycap profiling…
i definitely understand and have been around through the many Drop drops, but this just seems a little off to me.
i see that you asked them not to associate this new product with your name, which they didnt, and just continued a product line that they paid for with a different designer and also followed up with saying you weren’t associated with said new design which is what you asked for – then you follow up with them not giving you any credit although they mentioned you by name for mt3
youve been a positive impact to the community but this seems a bit off – even for you, they did exactly what you asked and continued with their own investment but you’re still mad about it? i could see if it was named mt3 low or mt3x or something but mt2 has nothing to do with your name other than m and t i guess and with a new profile that doesnt take cues from mt3 it seems
no hate just seems a bit out of proportion, and i dont think this would have happened back in the good ol days of the keyboard world – this would have definitely negatively impacted your end with how the situation was handled and just general relationship
Regarding engicoder involvement, that’s just untrue. I believe you are wrongly informed. Never even talked to the guy.
Regarding the rest, you are of course free to believe what you want.
hmm odd, i thought i remember that correctly when the profile was first being discussed
i mean sure, as is everybody…but thats why im asking for your input on the matter because it seems like they did what you asked but you still discontinued the relationship? i dont think its the biggest deal either way as you will continue on in different paths but just genuinely curious at this point
I love how the critics alway want to be “anonymous”
Man.. the disrespect from DROP and the shameless from MiTo knows no bounds. Sorry to see things unfold in such a manner.
I’m curious to know what’s the future for MT3 Retro moving forward? I’m assuming DROP own the moulds, so does this mean you have to look for another manufacturer and design it in another profile?
Kind of funny that Drop’s own announcement lead me here. At first I thought you were involved with the MT2 sets, then I read their post and saw that MT now stood for Mito and got incredibly confused.
That newer post also has an abnormally low amount of comments, which raised even more red flags. Either people have not seen it or they’ve been deleting comments?
Anyway, a real shame they did that. I’ve been aware about Drop’s crap behavior for a bit now but this is a new low as far as I am aware. Sucks cause I can’t get MT3 caps elsewhere and they’re my favorite profile right next to SA.
Hi Matt3o, so just want to ask about the future of MT3. As for MT3 keycaps, Drop own the profile so they can still run new MT3 keycap them right? It’s only you won’t run any set with them anymore. And for your previous sets (Dev tty, Elvish…..) that are still in-stock on Drop, they can still re-stock it? I haven’t pulled the trigger for MT3 LoTR yet, but if it’s not restocked then I will have it order soon.
Drop will keep releasing their keycaps in MT3, there won’t be any more sets designed by me though.
I didn’t gave permission of restocking my designs, but LotR is already in production so it will be sold soon.
I feel MT inside
The answer to all our confusion: it’s not Matt3o or MiTo, it’s MajesTouch 2!
LOL! Drop told me (jokingly) it is “Meticulous Typing”.
Would you create another high profile that would be similar to MT3? I would like to continue supporting you. I have been using MT3 almost exclusively and I am not a cherry profile fan
thanks! yes, I’m working on other profiles. We’ll talk about that soon
To this day I still dream of designing a keycap set based on your MT3 profile. I guess now the dream becomes more far-fetched? :(
If one day you are able to offer the chance to the community, please let us know!
Maestro looks like a very lovely set
Thank you! <3
Hey, just dropping by to say I love MT3, thanks for designing it and putting out such cool sets, dev/tty is my super favorite, also love Susu (but really like PBT).
Thanks for being so communicative on your blog too, I have asked questions or made suggestions, mostly asking for row 5 lol, and you are always so nice and quick to reply.
I hope you find good partners to work with in the future.
The idea of an ultra low profile mt3 actually sounds really good to me. Don’t want to support Drop, but would love something like what they’re calling “MT1”, except actually made by MT…
As others have said, Drop has been on the decline for a long time. I think this latest issue makes me wash my hands of them. I hope you come up with a similar profile to MT3 as it’s my favorite. I used SA for years until I got an MT3 set and was blown away by the feel. Specifically in PBT. One thing that always annoyed me about the MT3 PBT sets on Drop was that the alphas were always white/beige. We know it’s possible to do colored alphas as the modifiers on those sets were always other colors. I wonder if there was a cost issue with doing alphas in colors other than white/beige. I hope that any future MT3-like sets you release will be in PBT dyesub, with more color options.
In doubleshot, no there’s no particular reason for the alphas to be white. The designer can make them any color they want.
As per my future profile, stay tuned I’ll update in a few days.
sorry for this, mt3 dasher is my favourite keycap set ever, I’ll continue to follow you, keep up the good work! :)
I’m sorry to hear about this, I have two of your MT3 sets, white on black, and Susuwatari. I love the MT3 profile, it feels fantastic to type on. I love the feel of the keys. I think your color-ways are fantastic. Your key caps on Cherry MX Greens are the closest thing I’ve found to emulating an old school typing experience with a keyboard that has a more modern look. I was planning on eventually buying the Retro color-way and both the Elvish and Dwarven keyboards. I think Drop has done you quite a disservice by essentially taking your name in vain. I hope you can find a new partner to collaborate with, your work is fantastic and I hope the MT3 project does not die an untimely death because of this falling out.
As someone who’s become less of a fan of Drop over the years, absolutely adores the feel of MT3, and wants a lower-profile version for future builds….this actually feels like a positive development. Like, the MT3 profile is the only thing that kept me buying from Drop, reluctantly. I want to get your next profile release through a different distributor. Now I’m just hoping that some day I’ll have the option to add the function row onto an ortholinear set without having to purchase the base kit as well. I look forward to seeing whatever you bring next, whoever helps bring it to fruition.
So…are you back to working with them, then? https://drop.com/buy/drop-the-lord-of-the-rings-mt3-black-speech-keycap-set
yeah we cleared up things. they even changed name to “their” profile.
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